Are Modern Greeks direct descendents of the Ancient Greeks?
Risto Stefov
Risto Stefov
October 04, 2008
It doesn´t matter to me if Modern Greeks claim to be the descendents of the so called "Ancient Greeks" or the descendents of the Greek gods themselves as long as they stay away from interfering in the affairs of the ethnic Macedonians. Unfortunately they can´t help themselves so it leaves me no choice but to respond to their claims.For those who have repeatedly accused me of saying that Modern Macedonians are the direct descendents of the Ancient Macedonians, here is my answer:"I have never said that Modern Macedonians are direct descendants of the Ancient Macedonians! All I have said is that modern Macedonians who are indigenous to Macedonia and have lived in Macedonia for over a millennium are a product of the Ancient Macedonians and all invaders and settlers who have ventured in Macedonia and as such are entitled to be called Macedonians. I have also said Macedonia is a multi-ethnic state consisting of a majority of Macedonians both Christian and Muslim and several minorities including Albanians, Vlachs, Turks, Roma and others. I can back my claim with all kinds of demographic statistics from various censuses conducted over the years."Greeks on the other hand, constantly claim that they have a long lineage, a history and a language that extends back to the so-called ancient Greeks (I have hundreds of e-mails to prove my point). At the same time Greeks also say that Macedonians don´t exist and the Modern Macedonians are nothing more than "Slavs", "Bulgars" and "Skopjans" (a newly coined derogatory reference to the Macedonians in the Republic of Macedonia and to any ethnic Macedonian who dares call him or herself Macedonian). Greeks have also made claims that Modern Macedonians are a product of Yugoslavia and Tito´s imagination. However it is Greece and not Macedonia that to this day still claims it is populated by 98% pure Greeks and 2% Muslim Greeks and has yet to officially conduct a single observed census!How can a region in the Balkans where modern Greece is located today, which has been open to a multitude of invasions, conquests and settlements, remain homogeneous and untouched for more that two thousand years? This is a question that every Greek who subscribes to the purity of Greece should be asking.Ironically, while most Greeks subscribe to the idea that they are pure Greeks, they also subscribe to the idea that Modern Macedonians are "fake".Something is not right!Ever since Philip II of Macedonia conquered the Ancient City States at the conclusion of the battle of Chaeronea in 338 BC, the region that is covered by today´s Modern Macedonia and Modern Greece has been without borders and open to all kinds of invasions, conquests and settlements including those of the Romans, Byzantines and Ottomans. Neither country has been spared by conquerors, invaders and settlers over the years.Greeks like to challenge the Macedonians regarding the name "Macedonia" on account of the Greek claim that Macedonians don´t exist and those people living in Macedonia are not really Macedonians, therefore they can´t use the name "Macedonia" because it doesn´t belong to them.Fair enough. However Macedonians can make the same claim about Greece and the Greeks. There were no "Ancient Greeks" since the word "Greek" was not coined until after the Roman conquests, approximately 600 years after the establishment of the City States and approximately 150 years after they were conquered by the Macedonians. There were only Ancient City States, but at the time they were not called Greeks! Yet today we have ten million people who do call themselves "Greeks" and do claim they are the descendents of a race of people called "Ancient Greeks" when such a name never existed at the time! Besides, how do we know that those who today call themselves "Greeks" are really "Greeks" and not the product of all the people that settled that region over the years? Is there some sort of test to prove they are pure? It is also well known that the Ancient City States were never united politically and never established themselves as a single state. In fact they existed politically independent from one another and fought each other for political and economic dominance of the region.In fact the region where Modern Greece is today was never called Greece until recently (1800´s AD) when Greece became a state for the first time. Only just recently "Greece" was given a Latin name by the Great Powers Britain, France and Russia which is used internationally but Modern Greeks prefer to call themselves Hellenes (Ellines) and their state Hellas (Ellas).By using the name "Greek" to refer to both the ancient and modern people, the Greek state falsely implies descent of the modern Greeks from the ancients. By using the name "Greece" to refer to both the ancient and modern states, the Greek State is falsely implying;(1) Continuity between the ancient City States and modern Greece, and (2) That there was some sort of political unity between the Ancient City States themselves where one did not exist. In reality the words "Greece" and "Greek" were popularized by modern 19th century writers. There are no ancient maps created before the 1800´s that refer to that region as "Greece". But there are Ancient maps of that region. The Romans may have made some references to the ancient people living in Sicily as "Graecos" but they referred to the region where Greece is today as "Achaia". There is a map made of marble in Rome, preserved from Roman times that can attest to that. (See photo)
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During the Ottoman era the people now living in Greece called themselves Romeos (Romans).Greece is a newly created state that never existed before the 19th century. The Kingdom of Greece, occupying the region of Morea, present day Peloponnesus, was created for the first time in 1829. Between 1829 and 1912 the Greeks enlarged their territory to present day Greece, by conquering Crete, Epirus, Thessaly and 51% of Macedonia.At its inception Greece started out with a small population of less than one million people, most of whom were Albanians, Slavs, Turks and Vlahs with a small minority of other ethnicities. By the time Greece conquered Epirus and Thessaly, its population grew to three times its original size. In 1907 it registered a population of 2,600,000. After it conquered Macedonia and exchanged populations with Bulgaria and Turkey, its population tripled. In 1928 Greece registered 6,200,000 people. One million one hundred thousand of them were Christian Turks, settlers from Asia Minor.After the Treaty of Lausanne in July 1923, and after the population exchanges with Turkey, Greece declared itself homogenous consisting of 100% pure Greeks with a very small Muslim but ethnically Greek population.It is estimated that after Macedonia was conquered, occupied and had some of its population evicted, more than one million Macedonians still remained in Greek held Macedonia. According to Greece however, there were no non-Greeks left in Macedonia after its population exchanges. Also according to Greece, the ancient Macedonians were extinct, killed off by the Slavs during the so called Slav invasions around the 6th century AD. So the question that begs to be asked here is, "What ethnicity were those more than one million or so people who remained in Macedonia and became part of Greece?" Many Greeks would argue that they were Bulgarians because Macedonians do not exist!If that were the case, then how can the modern Greeks claim purity and homogeneity if at least 16% of its population in 1928 was non-Greek? What about its Vlah, Slav, Albanian and Turkish elements? Clearly they are not Greeks, let alone being direct descendents of the ancient Greeks?Even this small argument shows that there is something "really wrong" with these Greek claims.For over a century and a half, Greek State institutions, organizations and individuals have been making unproven and unfounded allegations that the modern Greeks are direct descendents of the Ancient Greeks. To this day they have shown no evidence to prove their claims. In fact the opposite is true. There is ample evidence that proves that this particular Modern Greek claim is wrong from the outset. This exact issue was tackled by Historian John Shea in chapter 4 of The Great Ethnic Mix of Greece, pages 77 to 96, in his book "Macedonia and Greece, The Struggle to Define a New Balkan Nation". Among other things, John Shea proves that even the ancient people were not homogeneous. "It has been estimated that in classical times the number of slaves in Attica was roughly equal to the number of free inhabitants, or around 100,000. In Sparta there was an even greater proportion of slaves, and most of them, the helots, were Messenians. While the slaves of Athens were a wide racial mix and therefore less likely to unite on the basis of a common language, these Messenian helots of Sparta all spoke Greek, and had a kind of group self-consciousness. Thus they presented ´special problems of security for their Spartan masters, whose numbers were constantly on the decline.´ Changes in the ethnic composition of Greek city-states are illustrated by the comments about the case of Piso. Piso, who had been the recipient of an unhelpful decision by a vote of the Athenian city assembly, ´made a violent speech in which he said that the latter-day Athenians had no right to identify themselves with the great Athenians of the days of Pericles, Demosthenes, Aeschylus, and Plato. The ancient Athenians had been extirpated by repeated wars and massacres and these were mere mongrels, degenerates, and the descendants of slaves. He said that any Roman who flattered them as if they were the legitimate heirs of those ancient heroes was lowering the dignity of the Roman name.´ Such historical ideas make it clear that even two thousand years ago the notion of ethnic purity amongst the Greeks was difficult to sustain. The ethnic mix continued over the next two thousand years. As Nicol has observed, ´The ancient Greeks were, after all, of very mixed ancestry; and there can be no doubt that the Byzantine Greeks, both before and after the Slav occupation, were even more heterogenous´." (Pages 83 and 84, John Shea, Macedonia and Greece, The Struggle to Define a New Balkan Nation)The truth is modern Greeks are not only NOT direct descendents of the ancients, but their claims to being "Greek" is dubious at best. It is Greece and the Greeks that are a modern 19th century creation: Not Macedonians. History can prove that! The greatest victims of Greek "claims" are the Greeks themselves.You can contact the author at rstefov@hotmail.com
Risto Stefov
Risto Stefov
October 04, 2008
It doesn´t matter to me if Modern Greeks claim to be the descendents of the so called "Ancient Greeks" or the descendents of the Greek gods themselves as long as they stay away from interfering in the affairs of the ethnic Macedonians. Unfortunately they can´t help themselves so it leaves me no choice but to respond to their claims.For those who have repeatedly accused me of saying that Modern Macedonians are the direct descendents of the Ancient Macedonians, here is my answer:"I have never said that Modern Macedonians are direct descendants of the Ancient Macedonians! All I have said is that modern Macedonians who are indigenous to Macedonia and have lived in Macedonia for over a millennium are a product of the Ancient Macedonians and all invaders and settlers who have ventured in Macedonia and as such are entitled to be called Macedonians. I have also said Macedonia is a multi-ethnic state consisting of a majority of Macedonians both Christian and Muslim and several minorities including Albanians, Vlachs, Turks, Roma and others. I can back my claim with all kinds of demographic statistics from various censuses conducted over the years."Greeks on the other hand, constantly claim that they have a long lineage, a history and a language that extends back to the so-called ancient Greeks (I have hundreds of e-mails to prove my point). At the same time Greeks also say that Macedonians don´t exist and the Modern Macedonians are nothing more than "Slavs", "Bulgars" and "Skopjans" (a newly coined derogatory reference to the Macedonians in the Republic of Macedonia and to any ethnic Macedonian who dares call him or herself Macedonian). Greeks have also made claims that Modern Macedonians are a product of Yugoslavia and Tito´s imagination. However it is Greece and not Macedonia that to this day still claims it is populated by 98% pure Greeks and 2% Muslim Greeks and has yet to officially conduct a single observed census!How can a region in the Balkans where modern Greece is located today, which has been open to a multitude of invasions, conquests and settlements, remain homogeneous and untouched for more that two thousand years? This is a question that every Greek who subscribes to the purity of Greece should be asking.Ironically, while most Greeks subscribe to the idea that they are pure Greeks, they also subscribe to the idea that Modern Macedonians are "fake".Something is not right!Ever since Philip II of Macedonia conquered the Ancient City States at the conclusion of the battle of Chaeronea in 338 BC, the region that is covered by today´s Modern Macedonia and Modern Greece has been without borders and open to all kinds of invasions, conquests and settlements including those of the Romans, Byzantines and Ottomans. Neither country has been spared by conquerors, invaders and settlers over the years.Greeks like to challenge the Macedonians regarding the name "Macedonia" on account of the Greek claim that Macedonians don´t exist and those people living in Macedonia are not really Macedonians, therefore they can´t use the name "Macedonia" because it doesn´t belong to them.Fair enough. However Macedonians can make the same claim about Greece and the Greeks. There were no "Ancient Greeks" since the word "Greek" was not coined until after the Roman conquests, approximately 600 years after the establishment of the City States and approximately 150 years after they were conquered by the Macedonians. There were only Ancient City States, but at the time they were not called Greeks! Yet today we have ten million people who do call themselves "Greeks" and do claim they are the descendents of a race of people called "Ancient Greeks" when such a name never existed at the time! Besides, how do we know that those who today call themselves "Greeks" are really "Greeks" and not the product of all the people that settled that region over the years? Is there some sort of test to prove they are pure? It is also well known that the Ancient City States were never united politically and never established themselves as a single state. In fact they existed politically independent from one another and fought each other for political and economic dominance of the region.In fact the region where Modern Greece is today was never called Greece until recently (1800´s AD) when Greece became a state for the first time. Only just recently "Greece" was given a Latin name by the Great Powers Britain, France and Russia which is used internationally but Modern Greeks prefer to call themselves Hellenes (Ellines) and their state Hellas (Ellas).By using the name "Greek" to refer to both the ancient and modern people, the Greek state falsely implies descent of the modern Greeks from the ancients. By using the name "Greece" to refer to both the ancient and modern states, the Greek State is falsely implying;(1) Continuity between the ancient City States and modern Greece, and (2) That there was some sort of political unity between the Ancient City States themselves where one did not exist. In reality the words "Greece" and "Greek" were popularized by modern 19th century writers. There are no ancient maps created before the 1800´s that refer to that region as "Greece". But there are Ancient maps of that region. The Romans may have made some references to the ancient people living in Sicily as "Graecos" but they referred to the region where Greece is today as "Achaia". There is a map made of marble in Rome, preserved from Roman times that can attest to that. (See photo)
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During the Ottoman era the people now living in Greece called themselves Romeos (Romans).Greece is a newly created state that never existed before the 19th century. The Kingdom of Greece, occupying the region of Morea, present day Peloponnesus, was created for the first time in 1829. Between 1829 and 1912 the Greeks enlarged their territory to present day Greece, by conquering Crete, Epirus, Thessaly and 51% of Macedonia.At its inception Greece started out with a small population of less than one million people, most of whom were Albanians, Slavs, Turks and Vlahs with a small minority of other ethnicities. By the time Greece conquered Epirus and Thessaly, its population grew to three times its original size. In 1907 it registered a population of 2,600,000. After it conquered Macedonia and exchanged populations with Bulgaria and Turkey, its population tripled. In 1928 Greece registered 6,200,000 people. One million one hundred thousand of them were Christian Turks, settlers from Asia Minor.After the Treaty of Lausanne in July 1923, and after the population exchanges with Turkey, Greece declared itself homogenous consisting of 100% pure Greeks with a very small Muslim but ethnically Greek population.It is estimated that after Macedonia was conquered, occupied and had some of its population evicted, more than one million Macedonians still remained in Greek held Macedonia. According to Greece however, there were no non-Greeks left in Macedonia after its population exchanges. Also according to Greece, the ancient Macedonians were extinct, killed off by the Slavs during the so called Slav invasions around the 6th century AD. So the question that begs to be asked here is, "What ethnicity were those more than one million or so people who remained in Macedonia and became part of Greece?" Many Greeks would argue that they were Bulgarians because Macedonians do not exist!If that were the case, then how can the modern Greeks claim purity and homogeneity if at least 16% of its population in 1928 was non-Greek? What about its Vlah, Slav, Albanian and Turkish elements? Clearly they are not Greeks, let alone being direct descendents of the ancient Greeks?Even this small argument shows that there is something "really wrong" with these Greek claims.For over a century and a half, Greek State institutions, organizations and individuals have been making unproven and unfounded allegations that the modern Greeks are direct descendents of the Ancient Greeks. To this day they have shown no evidence to prove their claims. In fact the opposite is true. There is ample evidence that proves that this particular Modern Greek claim is wrong from the outset. This exact issue was tackled by Historian John Shea in chapter 4 of The Great Ethnic Mix of Greece, pages 77 to 96, in his book "Macedonia and Greece, The Struggle to Define a New Balkan Nation". Among other things, John Shea proves that even the ancient people were not homogeneous. "It has been estimated that in classical times the number of slaves in Attica was roughly equal to the number of free inhabitants, or around 100,000. In Sparta there was an even greater proportion of slaves, and most of them, the helots, were Messenians. While the slaves of Athens were a wide racial mix and therefore less likely to unite on the basis of a common language, these Messenian helots of Sparta all spoke Greek, and had a kind of group self-consciousness. Thus they presented ´special problems of security for their Spartan masters, whose numbers were constantly on the decline.´ Changes in the ethnic composition of Greek city-states are illustrated by the comments about the case of Piso. Piso, who had been the recipient of an unhelpful decision by a vote of the Athenian city assembly, ´made a violent speech in which he said that the latter-day Athenians had no right to identify themselves with the great Athenians of the days of Pericles, Demosthenes, Aeschylus, and Plato. The ancient Athenians had been extirpated by repeated wars and massacres and these were mere mongrels, degenerates, and the descendants of slaves. He said that any Roman who flattered them as if they were the legitimate heirs of those ancient heroes was lowering the dignity of the Roman name.´ Such historical ideas make it clear that even two thousand years ago the notion of ethnic purity amongst the Greeks was difficult to sustain. The ethnic mix continued over the next two thousand years. As Nicol has observed, ´The ancient Greeks were, after all, of very mixed ancestry; and there can be no doubt that the Byzantine Greeks, both before and after the Slav occupation, were even more heterogenous´." (Pages 83 and 84, John Shea, Macedonia and Greece, The Struggle to Define a New Balkan Nation)The truth is modern Greeks are not only NOT direct descendents of the ancients, but their claims to being "Greek" is dubious at best. It is Greece and the Greeks that are a modern 19th century creation: Not Macedonians. History can prove that! The greatest victims of Greek "claims" are the Greeks themselves.You can contact the author at rstefov@hotmail.com
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